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Campaign HQ    The Company of the Bright Star Campaign    Vampire

The exchange of Magic

 
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2001 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I alluded to this in another thread somewhere.

I just want to clarify for all how easy (or not easy) it will be to purchase or sell magical gear. I start on page 137 of the DMG -- guidelines for how much money is available in a given community.

Even if a town is large enough to afford or provide a given item, a buyer/seller must still be found. Those who trade in magic typically trade only a few types of magic, or maybe even only one -- a noble might collect armor; a wizard might supply potions and scrolls and wands; the thieves guild might only purchase weapons or items that they can use; etc.

Each "merchant" is more likely to recognize the value of items within their field. Though they make take other types of items, they may not give full value for them.

Also, most NPCs do not have excess gems and gold lying around in the quantities that some of your new treasures will demand. The more expensive the item, the harder it will be to get full price in "cash".

Some cities are better equipped to handle magic items. The dwarven trade towns on the Mithril Road are almost always willing to pay full price (or more) for magic arms and armor, and the wizards of Drugash have plenty of funds available for powerful wands and staves (or rings of wizardry).

Items can be commissioned, if a spellcaster of appropriate level is in town, and has the appropriate feats and spells. NPC levels for most towns will be generated using the info on pages 139 and 140 of the DMG. Most spellcasters will have only one item creation feat for every 6 levels (wizards have one plus scribe scroll).

Elburg, for instance, is a Large Town with a population of around 3,000 people, and a 3000gp limit. If an item costs under 3000gp, then it is likely to be purchased, ordered, or commissioned there. Even though the available ready wealth (of the entire town) is 450,000gp, items over 3000gp will not likely fetch their market price. The highest level blacksmith is a 9th level expert craftsman, the High Priest of Hentrininon is 9th level, and somewhere in town is a 5th level wizard and a 6th level sorcerer. The High Priest has Craft Arms and Armor feat so could enhance a weapon to a +3 bonus, but the High Priest's time is not as inexpensive as a potion-brewing acolyte.

Questions? Points that need clarification? I feel like I'm sort of rambling...

-DMShoe
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2002 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More rambling follows:

I began thinking more about the issue recently, primarily due to some requests for purchases, and decided that I need to get things written down, in some sensible way. So that I have a reference and so that all the PCs are aware of how I'm doing some of these things "behind the screen".

There are two primary aspects I'm considering as key when acquiring magic items -- time and cost. The time it takes to make or arrange for purchase, and the cost in gold or xp for the purchase/creation.

I can see four ways in which specific magic items can be acquired:

  • Buy "off the shelf". The fastest way, and cost is usually market price (+/- regional modifiers). This is the way nearly all of your curative magics are handled. Potions and scrolls are the most common here. The only interaction required is essentially 1. Walk up to merchant. 2. Buy. Many "minor" items can be purchased in this manner, though mediums and majors are usually not for sale thusly.
  • Buy from "The Back Room". The idea here is that the magic item in question is too valuable to simply have lying shrink-wrapped on a shelf. More likely it isn't even in stock - but a merchant might know someone who might have such an item and be willing to sell. Or a merchant with means might keep an eye out for a specific item coming through the market. A number of middle-men might be involved, and the eventual cost will usually be %10-%20 above market price (the excess paid in fees to the merchant). The time involved depends on the availability of the item, wich is based to a degree on cost and the gp limit of the city, but will usually be greater than 1 day/1000gp. Minor items can almost always be found in this manner, usually within one week. Mediums have about a 75% chance to be found in that timeframe, and Majors a 50% chance. In some cases, an item cannot be found within a reasonable time, but the initial deposits are rarely refundable. And though the merchant may provide an initial time estimate, it is subject to change.
  • Commission the item. Pay somebody to do the work. The overall cost associated is very close to market price, but a greater percentage "surcharge" might be applied if the item requires a very high level spellcaster. A town with a Wizard's guild or a large temple complex would be able to quickly schedule item creation for minor items, with prep time between 50% and 150% of the actual creation time. Thus gloves of dexterity +2 would take between 2 and 6 days to get started, and be done 4 days later. Items that can be made in a given town are subject to the GP limit of that town, of course. The crafter usually will be forthright about the time it will take to get started.
  • Of course, a PC with the appropriate amount of time, gold, and XP can make his own items. Supplies for doing so must be purchased at some point, and such supply is likewise limited by the GP value, just not as severely - the materials must be purchased at a town that has a GP limit of at least 25% the item's value. This method has the lowest cost, and is second fastest, coming in right after the "off the shelf" option. Of course, it costs XP, and the availability of items is limited by feats and spells known.


Fundamentally, what I'm trying to do is make the creation of your own equipment the fastest and easiest way to go. Minor items are still fairly easy to come by, though. Especially those that are in high demand by adventurers: healing or lesser restoration potions, wand of cure light wounds, +1 or +2 equiv weapons and armor, +1 rings of protection, +1 or +2 cloaks of resistance. Not to say they will always be in stock -- but there are alot of those minor items out there that circulate as their former owners "trade up". Those items without a viable trade-up route might be harder to come by, even though they are in demand: haversacks, big bags, portable holes, boots of speed, gloves of storing. Eventually they can probably be found.

Multiples of the same item become more difficult to acquire, aka more expensive. For instance, if the party wanted to outfit itself with winged boots, the first pair might be found within 2 weeks for around 12,000gp. The next pair? a longer wait, or a higher cost (other people may be shopping for the same items, and could bid up to try and get the next available) Maybe 4-5 weeks, or 16,000gp? *shrug*

The size and type of the city involved still comes into play, though. More arcane scrolls and wands would be available in Drugash (though few "off the shelf"). Brunlaga would have many shops that might have a stock of weapons or armor (say 4-5 shops with 6-12 +1 items and 2-6 +2 equiv items each). Ravensport has a mix of magic sellers - an arms dealer with a rotating stock of weapons, an herbalist with a variety of potions, a bookseller with a bunch of scrolls.

Items could also be purchased at once, from the same merchant, via the "back room" method, probably with a lower overall finder's fee. If the merchant deals in each of those items, of course.

Anyway -- just food for thought, really -- I don't want to get too sidetracked with roleplaying every single trade, but at the same time I want to flesh out some of these "downtime" interactions.

-DMShoe
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2002 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to the sale of magic -- I'm not sure how realistic it is to have thousands of extra gp in every town, just waiting to buy loot.

I would rather focus on the characters and the plot than spend a session fencing your wares, though -- so in an effort to simplify the process a bit, I propose the following:

Selling of magical equipment of significant value will follow the guidelines above - it takes rougly 1 day per 1,000gp of the item's market price.

Alternatively, a particular merchant might accept the item as part of a trade for something else that he/she deals in. i.e. a weapons shop, that deals in such high-priced items as magical weapons, could be used to pay for another weapon. You still get 1/2 market price on the trade-in, though, for the most part.

Some merchants might deal in more than one type, of course -- and temples might be considered merchants in some regard here, supplying clerical magics, or performing services (heal, raise dead, craft magic), in exchange for items appropriate to clerics or the diety's following.

With the appropriate connections, more "underground" routes could be used, especially to liquidate items quickly, but there is usually a surcharge involved.

Comments? Questions? Complaints?

-DMShoe
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Dez
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that it is probably not very realistic to have thousands of extra GP "floating" in a city, to enable the purchase of adventurers' loot. (But am not going to get on the "fantasy world" soap box here, either...) However, if your goal is to focus on characters & plot, I think that the proposal above will detract from, rather than enhance, that goal. This is because I, for one, am not eager to "go back in" without re-equipping, and most times, the only way to afford to re-equip is to sell all the loot that hasn't been distributed to the party. So each time we went to try to re-equip, we'd suddenly end up needing 2-20 days to sell the stuff, plus 2-20 (or more) days to buy stuff. Even if we optimize & start asking on the first day for "merchants" to start working on getting items for us (which we have already discovered they are less willing to do if we don't put a deposit in), we may not have the cash to purchase said item when they get it in, depending on when we are able to sell stuff. Realistically, how many times can this happen before the "merchants" become less willing to look for things without cash up front? Probably not too many times. "I'm trying to find buyers for this stuff so I can pay you." generally translates to "Gee, I hope no one else shows up in town looking for one of these things with cash in hand..." So in reality, we're looking at 4-40 days in town to re-equip (more frequently probably in the 20-30 day time frame (8 days to sell a +2 equiv weapon, 12 days to purchase something better than what we have used to calculate the 20 base) each time we head back to town.

The major downside I see to this is when the party is working on a time-critical mission, taking 2-4 weeks to resupply is not going to be an option, but without resupplying, the mortality rate is likely to be higher, as the party won't be outfitted as well as the encounters are "expecting" (i.e., balanced for). The upside -- for magic-based characters -- is that they get time to learn new spells/create items/other time-conuuming magical tasks, while non-magical characters are spending money that they're not making back. It gets a lot more difficult to save up to buy that whiz-bang item when you have several times several weeks of "down time" that you have to feed and shelter yourself during...

Also, I am concerned about the "surcharges" for selling items...we're already selling for 50%, and I seriously doubt that the market would sustain itself if "merchants" were moking 50% profit (or even 40% - taking into consideration costs of cleaning soiled equipment) on every sale.. Wouldn't it be reasonable to include the "surcharges" as part of that 50% of the item's value the adventurers lose when they sell? Esp. now that we're paying "surcharges" when purchasing items...this seems like extreme over-taxation. (Yes, I have some concerns about the purchasing surcharges too, which are rooted in the game's concept of balance -- I understand the logic involved, but the mechanic becomes less balanced when that logic is applied. More on this later, if there is interest in the discussion...)

Going back to the "focus on the plot and the characters" comment, I guess my concern is that while a bit of downtime to resupply can be a good way to introduce additional plot/story elements, it seems to me that the current time frames are significantly detrimental to that activity. And -- at least in the Bright Star campaign, where I am not a magic-user -- my character is more likely to get bored out of his mind if after every 2-3 days of adventuring, he has to "sit on his thumbs" for 3 weeks (after spending a week maintaining contacts/initiating deals/etc...) before spending another 2-3 days adventuring. If the party's magickers need some down time, and it will benefit the party, that is one thing, but I've got a feeling that there isn't enough experience in the party to make all the stuff the party would want (especially in our larger-than-four-character parties), which means we're going to deplete available XP from the item creation characters, making them level some, or dramatically, more slowly, so we can get items in a "fastest & easiest" manner.

As an aside, perhaps having the XP cost for item creation be able to be drawn from the character requesting the item would help to balance this out -- "Sure, I can make that protable hole for you. You've got 560 xp to spare, right?" -- this would spead the XP cost through the party, so no one character had to bear the brunt of this cost. I realize that in the Bright Star campaign, Tahlali has an XP pool to offset this, and I don't know how big it is, but I'd be willing to bet that one or two characters requesting item creation would be able to drain in pretty quickly, especially with the level the characters currently are, and the types of items for which they would be looking.

Hoping this makes sense to someone other than myself,
--dez--
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Razputyn
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Dez for the most part on the timing of selling and buying items. Two to three days adventuring followed by 2-3 weeks for re-equipping sounds a like a little too much for me to. Do to our higher character levels and our need for more powerful and potent items, the time becomes even more drawn out due to the higher costs required these types of items.

Having said that I also can see that we might not need to re-equip to maximal efficiency each time we get back into town. If we are in the middle of something than our re-equipping should try to be kept to a minimum. However, after finishing a larger campaign I think that it is quite reasonable to for adventurers to want to re-stock and re-arm completely.

I also agree with what DMShoe has to say about the amount of money floating around in any city to buy things that adventurers bring in. This could be partly due to how we as a party have been spending our money. We tend to spend money at the following places in this following order: Temples, places for potions, places for miscellaneous magic items, and finally weapon and armor shops. What I want to point out is that we spend more money purchasing things at the first 2 places, but we expect to sell things we find at the last 2 places. If we could only sell our things to where we spent our money that would make things easier.

I feel that I may have lost my point for the last paragraph....too many phone calls. I hope that someone is able to make some sense of it. The long and short of it is that we adversely affect the cities economy by not spending our money at the places we expect to buy our stuff.

-Raz
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a few separate issues that step all over each other in discussions on this topic:

First, how easy should it be to sell treasure gained during adventuring?
Second, how easy should it be to obtain expensive magic items, especially items customized to a character?
Third, how should PCs deal with downtime?
Fourth, how often do PCs need to upgrade equipment?
(And there are more issues, I'm sure.)

A PC or party may be in a situation where time is critical. That means that the party will likely have to make do with what they can afford, and what is immediately available.

If the party decides, in the middle of assaulting a demon lord's keep, to teleport back to town and sell that great vorpal sword and buy 25,000gp worth of gear, and meanwhile the demon destroys part of the world? Then they may have to accept the consequences of not focusing on their mission.

As far as re-equipping before "going back in" - I think I've made it clear that most of the "disposable" magics, such as healing wands and potions, or other potions and scrolls, would be readily available in sufficient quantities. Also, some "mediums" and "majors" may actually be available for what amounts to an immediate purchase, but that is dictated by availability. If it isn't in, you have to wait, or go on without. If the item is available, then you might be able to trade in some of your treasure for it (weapon for weapon, armor for armor, etc). In some circumstances an off-type item could be used (tongs of the armorer, to an armor seller, for instance). I just fail to see how it would take 2-4 weeks to "resupply".

If, on the other hand, you feel that you need to spend all your newly found treasure before you can possibly continue -- or that there is some item that you must have to succeed, then I would ask what that item is, because I am not currently aware of any challenge upcoming that the parties cannot overcome with current (or currently available) resources.

But if you do feel the need to spend quickly, then surcharges do in fact tax you. You are paying the premium for early delivery, and outbidding other buyers if quantities are limited. If you feel the need to offload quickly, then it essentially requires the use of a fence of some sort, who will demand a percentage for his work, especially when he pays you before he can sell all the stuff.

A merchant may pay you 500gp for a cloak of resistance +1, but he also may be paying 10-20% for local taxes, 10-20% for other fees related to the security of his new item (paying off Theives' guilds, hiring a wizard, etc), and 5-15% for other miscellaneous expenses (cleaning, advertising, private viewings, validation of authenticity, etc). Which means he's lucky to net 100gp off the sale of that item, if and when he finally does sell it.

As far as realism vs fantasy -- when I refer to "realism", I'm not placing that into the context of the Real World (tm). I refer to my attempts to create a fantasy world that makes sense. In this case, I'm trying to place an abstract economic model into the fictional setting. One that "makes sense". Note that "makes sense" does not equate to "easy for party".

Regarding xp coming from the person that doesn't have the feat -- an interesting idea, one that merits some discussion. My initial inclination would be to suggest that the net XP cost would be greater. i.e. if the item normally costs 50 XP for the spellcaster, then it might cost 60 XP for spellcaster/other - 20 for the crafter, 40 for the subject. But this opens up a can of worms -- now we have evil spellcasters kidnapping people to drain their XP... Yeah.. it could work..

And finally, regarding downtime. I am on the verge of instituting a training rule similar to the one I suggested in the Campaign Ruminations thread. And the Spell Acquisition process I dictated in the same thread. Fighters and Rogues then have significant training to do during that "downtime".

If I spend the time creating adventures for the characters that opt out of taking "downtime", then those characters get even more separated from the wizard or cleric toiling away at making magic for the group. And that is if I can find time/energy to create those adventures, and the time to run them. One option would be for players to create additional characters, so everyone could play while some PCs are having "downtime". But that might not work in some situations.

Ok -- I've rambled enough for the afternoon. I look forward to more discussion.

-DMShoe
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Dez
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 4:39 pm    Post subject: XP/Item creation Reply with quote

A couple of initial thoughts on the "XP for item creation from other than creator":

1) Grantor must (without influence of magic) voluntarily give up the XP -- it cannot be "stolen", although it might be "tricked"...

2) If still requiring the creator to use some personal XP, set the ratio to 20:80 (creator:grantor), or perhaps even 10:90.

3) If this goes into being, NPCs (or maybe even PCs) might start "whoring out" their XP at the 5gp/xp exchange that is listed for spellcasting with xp costs.

4) Grantor must be involved for the duration of the item creation -- they must be present for the entire time -- can't just say "here's my XP...i'm going to go live it up while you make that item for me..." -- logic here being that for the XP to come from Grantor, they have to be present for it to be imbued into the item.

--dez--
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Dez
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:00 pm    Post subject: Re-equipping time Reply with quote

Two things come quickly to mind about why it would take 2-4 weeks to re-equip (with the more common quick-equip sessions taking 1.5-3 weeks probably):

1) most of the treasure (at least in Bright Star & Dungeon World) is in items, rather than coins/gems. This means that we have to sell items before we can buy the commonly available, easy to acquire items. So if all we've got is a bunch of +1 longswords, it's going to take us (2 days * number of swords we have / number of swords we can sell per twoday). If we only got +2 weapons, or +2 armors, it takes more time. If all we're getting is masterwork or lower gear, selling it quickly isn't a problem. Once we start getting into magic items, it takes more time (why would one person buy more than one weapon in two days? They don't have them to sell...)

2) if some major/critical item is destroyed (puddings, nasty extradimensional critters/sunder attacks/etc), it may be necessary (although I will freely admit I can't think of anything like this that doesn't have workarounds at mid-high levels) to the completion of the quest that the destroyed item(s) be replaced with equal or better equipment. This would entail (a) selling expensive loot, which takes time, and (b) buying expensive merchandise, which takes more time.

I fully agree that if the party decides they need to go back to town & sell all their loot and buy the coolest whiz-bang thing(s) possible with the money, and the demon lord ravages the country in the meantime, it comes back to their door. However, if that vorpal sword is the only thing of value they've found (no armor on that Balor, and they need to resurrect the cleric that had his head chopped off), they have to sell the sword (or something that is actually being _used_ by a party member) to afford the ressurrection (or, if the cleric is thoroughly despised, even the raise dead) -- because there isn't a heap of coins that falls out of the Balor's mouth when it finally dies. Just an example of how this could feasibly be an issue...

As noted in my previous post, I understand the logic -- of the surcharges -- being applied here. The question/challenge I am posing is: "If the characters are going to have to pay more/receive less for items, are they going to be earning more treasure? The game is (according to WotC) balanced across (a) amount of expected character wealth, (b) challenge rating of creatures being fought, (c) type of treasure gained from said creatures, and (d) XP gained for defeating these creatures with this level of equippage. How does this (albeit logical) surcharge rule impact game balance? From a quick look, it begins to lower (a) and (c), which would impact (b) and (d)."

A simple (but possibly dull) solution to this is treasure hoards are only coins/gems. I don't think I need to elaborate on why that would be dull...

I think that's enough mental output for now. I'd like to get some responses before I go too much further...

--dez--
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:13 pm    Post subject: Downtime Reply with quote

Well, the downtime question becomes slightly more academic if we don't institute the "1 day/1000 gp for selling items", because we won't have down time every time we go back to resupply. However, the training rules add a bit more depth/realism to the game (although it does take away a bit from the "magic" aspect --" *shazam* you have a sudden epiphany, and can cast an additional X spells from this new spell level" becomes "yeah - i spent the last month studying and training my mind so that I'll be able to understand new spells more readily"...

I don't want to suggest (although I have in the past) that characters who are "opting out" of downtime activities go on some side adventures, as I (believe it or not) have some idea of the huge burder it places on the DM's shoulders, and don't intend for that to happen...or at least, would like to not be the instigator of that...

The main problem with using training to cover downtime is that different characters will need different amounts of down time...the mage who has item creation feats will need N days to create all the items the party wants, and can only work with one at a time -- while the rest are off training, or doing ???; then (either prior to or after item creation) the mage gets a chance to do the training required for their skills/feats/spells, but the rest of the party has already gotten most of their training, so are again possibly without something to do, while the mage gets to a similar level of training as the rest of the party. I unfortunately don't have any bright ideas at current to help alleviate this disparity, but I'm rolling it around in my subconscious...

Maybe (some of) the other party members could be working on buying hard-to-get equipment...but that goes counter to the thrust of "it's easier/cheaper/faster to create it"...

--dez--
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to the re-equipping -- you aren't taking into consideration my suggestion that a like-for-like transaction can still occur in a short timeframe. Those +1 swords become 1157gp credit toward purchasing some other kind of weapon, and the trade can be made very quickly, without waiting the "2 days to sell". The only limitation is the currently available stock.

The extra expense you might incur via surcharges on buying and selling are offset somewhat by your ability to craft items, essentially doubling the amount of gold spent on them. Other, more subtle offsets include special deals to buy or sell certain types of items. For instance, in the Return to the Temple campaign, the Temple of Moradin is purchasing all dwarven made weapons/armor/hammerspheres/artifacts at full price, and Spugnoir the alchemist offers a 30% discount on his potions and scrolls.

-DMShoe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

btw,

Temples are likely not going to turn down any sort of donation, unless against their primary beliefs.

Need a true resurrection? Temples would take magic items in payment for that.

-DMShoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just looking through a forum on enworld regarding magic item economics.

You guys don't know how good you have it -- there are some very stingy DMs out there.

-DMShoe
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Razputyn
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading through all those posts I get a feeling that a lot of those DM's run custom worlds and adventures. I did not get the feeling that most of them used the extra adventures and what not Wizards or Malhavok Press supplies. If they did then their players would be finding a lot of "stuff" that they would often be unable to carry and sell.

I don't exactly know how some of these DM's expect their players to combat the more gruelsome creatures in the Monstrous Manual either. Even in your world where we have access to all the goods we have difficulty tackling some of these creatures. Maybe in their worlds everyone chooses to play Mages and Clerics, but without having a party of just clerics and mages you would have a difficult time healing everyone and fighting off big dangers at higher levels.

While I can appreciate each posters opinions and beliefs on magic in their campaigns, I can't say that I agree with many of them. I like to think that Wizards had reason and purpose to spending all that time into writing and detailing all those magic items in the DMG. Maybe they don't allow their players to buy DMG's, because I think it would be a little frustrating to never have the possibility to play with some of those items listed.

Having said all this, I for one am very happy and thankful for the way you run magic in your worlds Shoe. In your campaigns I don't get the feeling that magic items make the characters. They serve to accent the characters and most often just help the characters stay alive.

Anyways, just my coppers!

-Raz
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

I can see how both sides think. On the one hand, magic items can get out of hand and characters can become ridiculus. However I think I agree more with the person who said that if he wanted to play a stingy magic campaign that he would play Conan.

I think that when characters get to higher levels, they should have access to more powerful weapons, and not just those made by PC's. Granted, there are only a few monsters out there, in the grand scheme, that have some sort of damage reduction. So a MW or +1 weapon would suffice. One could even argue that a mage with Greater Magic Weapon would help the fighters in overcoming the damage reduction.

But even if you look at the moderate magic realm of Grayhawk, the iconic characters, stated at upper levels, have +3 or +4 items. I'm not taking into account the somtimes insane magical hording that the FRCS icons do.

The long and short is that magic items can make a character more interesting to play, as long as it is not overbalanced.

Mazrim


(hope that made sense. Long day at work so far)
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Last edited by Mazrim on Thu Jul 11, 2002 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magic is definitely a part of the campaigns that I currently run. It is not so common as electricity, but it is available... I've been trying to run games that stick close to the guidelines suggested in the DMG, with average character wealth close to the table on page 145 of the DMG.

I believe that characters should have the means to sell the magic items they find, and acquire items they want.

But I don't think that means that every large city should be stocked with all sorts of expensive magic just waiting to be purchased.

I think that stores that sell magic items make sense to a degree, and I use the games price structure to determine what is available. I also provide alternative ways of purchasing or comissioning magic gear, so that virtually anything can be bought or bartered for, given enough time and/or money.

Monte Cook, in his Ptolus campaign, has an interesting alternative that I think he cooked up to avoid PCs getting obscenely rich off the magic trade: The Dreaming Apothecary. If you want to buy something that isn't found in the "standard" potion or scroll shops, then you contact an agent of the Dreaming Apothecary, and indicate that you want to buy something. That night, an emissary from the DA visits you in your dreams, where you make your request, and your payment (left somewhere nearby). Two weeks later you have your item, magically delivered. Other "Magic Shoppes" don't ever seem to stay in business very long... I'm not sure I'm ready to go that far -- not yet, anyway...

-DMShoe
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Mazrim
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2002 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,

Contunuing from our conversation last night, I thought that this was an intersting post from the En World forum.

Quote:
Technically, yes, the campaign I play in has one. On the other hand, the treasure is so low, and the prices are so high, nothing has been bought from it, except a few scrolls.

You want a naked PC? 13th level sorcerer/rogue. +1 quarterstaff, +1 leather, Cloak of resistance +1. And slippers of spider climb. Oh, and two CLW potions for emergencies.


It's not that bad, really. Requires inventive teamwork and creative spell use. Except when the demons pop up. DR and SR combined tend to cause great problems.



The last paragraph really illustrates the problem with having a low magic world, and not balancing the monsters as well.

Mazrim
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