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Campaign HQ    The Company of the Bright Star Campaign    Vampire

Leadership

 
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DMShoe
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!


Joined: 23 Feb 2001
Posts: 2835
Location: The Head of the Game Table

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2001 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leadership and unity.

I think those are two parts of a successful adventuring group.

The leadership need not come from a single person, but there should be a structure for resolving disagreements.

I realize that some people in the game world (and in real world, too) are going to be very independent, and that is fine. But an adventuring party needs to work together.

From a metagame standpoint, I think the game flows better and is more fun for everyone when the party works together.

What are peoples' thoughts on this issue? Is it that big of a deal? Are there suggestions? Just thought I'd throw it out there.

-DMShoe
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Razputyn
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Joined: 20 Feb 2001
Posts: 1859
Location: Puyallup, Wa

PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2001 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe to get some form of unity and leadership within the group we need to try and develop more trust within the group. We have a wide range of characters and character backgrounds that don't necessarily help in trying to build group trust and cohesiveness.

While the saturday group has travelled together for the past level or so it still does not give us a close enough tie together. Several characters still want to be "lone wolves" and feel the need to have a dark secretive side to their characters in my opinion.

I believe to aleviate the current leadership and trust issue we need to have been together as a group for a longer period of time. In my opinion we as a group should have been together longer since level 1 to our current level. This would allow us to have less secrets between each other and give us more of a common ground for interaction. Being together longer means not only saying our characters have been together longer, but also requires us as players to develop histories and relationships with each other's characters.

We should try as a group to use these forums to start building relationships with each other as characters. This might help us build "allegiances" with others that might help in future decision making situations.

Oh well, just my two cents.
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Locksley
I'm a Dragon and that's OK...
I'm a Dragon and that's OK...


Joined: 21 Feb 2001
Posts: 1490
Location: Exiled to Olympia...

PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2001 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm inclined to agree with Milt on this. The Saturday campaign (granted, I wasn't here THIS Saturday) lacks, historically, both party leadership and a unifying sense of cohesion. This is much more character than player based, I assure you. The players do well together. Unfortunately, our characters do not get along. While I would never want to force anyone down any particular character path, I do think that the party should come to some consensus about leadership and such. Suffice it to say, explaining ourselves to each other is something we ought to do. Otherwise, feelings get stepped on.

Just my nickel. B)
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Dez
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Joined: 25 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2001 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adventuring tends to be a lot more enjoyable (in my experience) for both the players and the DM if there is some kind of cohesion in the group -- a shared goal, or a shared destiny, or some such. This is (imho) one of the primary things that made the first 3E Saturday campaign so tough to play -- there was no party cohesiveness. An excellent example of this was when we were trying to figure out "what do we do now"?, and two people wanted to go off and find a "holy or noble quest", two wanted to go check out the wizards' towers (from the map we found in the swamp), a couple of us wanted to go play with finding enough mithril to outfit the party...and there was really at that point no reason for the group to continue as a group.

The first attempt to rectify that brought together a group of 3 rogues, and a brother/sister pairing. This group at least had some cohesion -- the rogues had vaguely similar interests, and the siblings worked together well. Problem was that two of the rogues were significantly opposed to drawing attention to themselves, and the other three members of the group seemed to thrive on that. Not having a medium- or long-range goal for the group may have contributed to this issue -- don't know for sure...

The last session went pretty well, because we had a goal from the beginning (rescue the baron's lion), and that drove the session. It also helped that we took time to try to strategize enough to 1) work as a group in combat, and 2) prepare for known events before actually encountering them.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree we need the party to come together for this campaign to be fun for everyone -- whether this means scrapping the last two sets of characters and creating new, or just working with the current characters (from the first or second incarnations of the Saturday campaign) and either 1) forging a group out of the existing characters, or 2) forging a group goal/dynamic, and anyone who has characters that wouldn't be interested in that goal could bring in new characters that would. Noting that if we go with (2), it should probably be a goal decided on by simple majority -- otherwise, it may take too many months to do anything with, even if we hash it all out here on the forums.

--dez--
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Locksley
I'm a Dragon and that's OK...
I'm a Dragon and that's OK...


Joined: 21 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2001 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good idea to me.
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DMShoe
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Here dragon, dragon, dragon!


Joined: 23 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2001 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm bumping this thread up, to see if there are any additional comments at this time.

-DMShoe
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strattjw
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Joined: 23 Feb 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2001 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the way last session went it seems like the party nominated the Paladin to be the leader.
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Kyndig
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Joined: 27 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's me, right? =)

Pelor's healing touch be with you.
Sir Wendle Frost
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Locksley
I'm a Dragon and that's OK...
I'm a Dragon and that's OK...


Joined: 21 Feb 2001
Posts: 1490
Location: Exiled to Olympia...

PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2001 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a player post... Smile

I don't know if we can yet say who the leader of the group is, or where the leadership lies. We have a spokesman, perhaps, but even electing someone to be in charge isn't the same as leadership. If we say, "Robin is in charge" but Jesse and Steve come up with most of the ideas and direction for the group, then it doesn't really hold that Robin is actually the leader.

There's nothing wrong with the paladin wanting to lead this group. But after one whole adventure together, most of which involved us learning more about our setting, I think it will be the next couple of adventures that determine where the leader is.

I also hope that if someone does WANT to be the leader, that they will explain that to the group too. "My character is trying to show leadership because he wants to eventually attract followers and become a duke." I don't anyone has a problem with that. It's role-playing. I can assure you that playing leaders as well as followers is part of the experience.

And just to clarify stuff right now, Kael is a headstrong (not necessarily rash) warrior with a firm belief in direct action. Subtle is not yet his trademark. Fast is though. I don't remember which of the Factions of Sigil it was, but he would be PERFECT for them. So, don't think I'm intentionally playing a penis-head. I'm playing a young, brash warrior with a sense of superiority and gifts. Think of a bolder and more glowing and humming Sturm.
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