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Campaign HQ    The Company of the Bright Star Campaign    Vampire

Direction for Sat, Mar 30
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2002 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The next session is scheduled for March 30.

If possible, I would like for Meg and Gaiden to arrive a bit early, so we can work through the details of finding the rest of the party.

For planning purposes, think about the following: It would make sense to me if Meg and Gaiden had agreed to meet up with the rest inside the dwarven temple of the Crater Ridge Mines, since that is how we likely would have had the party regroup next session, anyway.

The bodies of your fallen comrades will likely be quickly found, since they fell just inside. Some bodies are less whole than others.

Think about how your characters would react, and the actions they would take at that point, since that is where we will pick up.

The rest of you, have your new characters ready -- min xp for whatever level you were when your previous character died.

-DMShoe
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strattjw
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

two questions.

first, after the party sold off the eq that we had (which i heard happened at the start of the last session) what was the amount that meg and gaidan got as their cut? knowing this will help us spend that money quicker as we can think about it before the actual session.

second, if we find bodies can we get chloe resurrected? i know both meg and gaidan have a particular fondness for our paladin comrade and would do so.

-- jesse
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mzshoe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While Chloe would certainly love to be resurrected and continue in her pursuit against this evil temple, please remember that she will be without all equipment (that includes Isenhaumer). Basic items can be purchased, but Chloe will have no money.

While Steve reminds me that I can do without Isenhaumer as long as I have a basic weapon and armor, I have other concerns. The main one being that I have come to the realization that it is almost as difficult to have a purely lawful good character in a party as it is to have a chaotic evil character in the party. If the party as a whole does not model the extreme or at least agree, for the sake of the party, to follow the extreme's lead, it creates a schism in the group that is difficult to overcome.

Unless the party is willing to recognize one leader/spokesman in the group and allow that person the time to negotiate with anyone, it doesn't work. I'll admit that my improvisational conversation is not the greatest, but when I'm trying to negotiate and someone else enjoins battle without waiting for my signal (whether or not a signal was pre-arranged), it is very frustrating.

From Chloe's perspective, if asked in the "afterlife" if she would wish to return, the answer is yes so that she can continue the fight and complete her mission for Jascar.

From Katherine's perspective, I don't know if Chloe would want to join any group of adventurers unless she knew that an agreement could be reached as to how to approach the different encounters in the Temple Environs.
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much everything in party treasure had been sold, except for the +2 scale mail of strength (+2) and perhaps a couple other items that were being toted by Meg. Though most of the party treasure was subsequently lost to the druid, I will assume that the sale proceeds were distributed prior to the first five setting out.

I do not know, however, what the actual amount was -- Dez? Stormweather? Anyone? Rumor has it around 2600gp.

And as far as the bodies go -- If you were to happen to find bodies right inside the door, and wished to get them raised/resurrected.. it is likely possible. However, it may also be the case that the bodies are sufficiently eviscerated/eaten to make raise dead an unlikely solution.

A resurrection spell runs about 1410gp, while true resurrection is 6590gp.

Some gear, however, might be left behind -- the druid could only carry so much, even once/if he discovered the bag of holding or the haversack. (A glimpse behind the scenes: the druid had but one detect magic spell, and didn't exactly pause to examine all the gear on the corpses. There is a percentage chance that he didn't bother picking up a particular item -- a greater chance for big, heavy, metal items.)

I'll have a full description and rundown for you by the 30th.

Btw, I know Chloe wishes to return. Are there any others of the fallen that wish to return (via resurrection)? Per the spell, you would be at the midpoint of the previous level (unless true res is used). I would assume that Gaiden and Meg might gather what they can, and then sell the stuff, using the proceeds to bring back and equip the dead.

It might be best to run through this encounter bit prior to the 30th. Is there sometime that Meg and Gaiden might be available in the next week or two?

-DMShoe
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For an idea of what's to come -- take a look at the story forum.

-DMShoe
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strattjw
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if Kat wants to bring in a different character, Meg and Gaidan would probably still like to raise Chloe. Meg, having the speak with dead spell, could talk with her and figure out what happened from her. We could always just raise Chloe and she could go along her marry way, opting not to travel with this party anymore.

I think a time prior to the March 30th session to meet would be a good idea. I'm sure steve and i could find a time to do so.

-- jesse
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Dez
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stormweather & I both noted down the split...I'll post it this evening (meant to last night, but unpacking, and rebuilding my computer got in the way)

Antonious would really like to come back...

I think the ballpark is about correct, but will post exact this eve.

--dez--
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stratt -- can you and Gaiden find time this weekend? I think I'm free all weekend. I figure it'll take about an hour or two.

-DMShoe
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tykeal
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't Mazrim playing as well? I can't remember.

Hey Mazrim... you in this one?

Shouldn't he be included in that additional encounter run then?


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strattjw
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shoe, steve and i can both meet with you after noon on saturday but have to be done before 7pm. steve has something planned then.

-- jesse
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Dez
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. The official notes have been found. The total split (this is for each character) of what we sold was: 2620 gp.

--dez--
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tykeal
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey! Don't forget to tell them that they could have gotten that split in gems. That's a lot of weight otherwise Wink

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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copper.

Its all copper.

262,000 cp.

or roughly 5240 pounds of coin.

Call me when you guys are ready -- I'll be ready when you are.

-DMShoe
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Razputyn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2002 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awww....I was hoping to see an entire new group of characters to bring in. I am sad now :'(!!!

-Raz
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2002 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those whose characters perished are still free to bring in other characters, even if their previous characters are raised.

The new characters discussed last weekend may be better suited to continuing to explore the temple, or at least have a greater desire to do so.

At any rate, it appears that Meg, Gaiden, and Chloe will be continuing onward -- perhaps with Antonious.

Remember that characters raised may lose a level and will have no equipment, though a loan may be arranged for appropriately aligned characters from the dwarves.

-DMShoe
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Razputyn
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2002 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey all!

I would personally like to see a new "party" makeup. Having said this let me explain why.

I know that we as players often get attached to the characters that we create and that we have some grand scheme for what our characters will someday become. I sometimes feel that this attachment to my favorite characters puts me into a rut that does not allow me to try new characters or new flavors of characters. I don't want this post to be a cricticism of myself or others, I just would like for everyone to think this over.

I also think that the current party make-up is not as "friendly/cohesive" enough. I would just like to see us try a new happier, easy going group.

Please take consider this and not look at it like a criticism. I respect all of you and your motives, and you are all great gamers!

-Raz
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Dez
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2002 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to echo Raz's observation that our group seems to lack cohesiveness...I'm not going to point fingers or lay blame -- that won't help the situation at all.

I would suggest, however, that we might want to spend some time at the next session out of character talking about why this group is together. It seems to me that we have been a group of 8 characters who just happen to be walking on the same path, rather than a group of 8 characters working together to accomplish a goal. This has, IMHO, lent itself to the large number of character deaths we have witnessed over the course of the campaign. Perhaps if we sorted out why the characters were together, and what goal they were pursuing together, we could have a more cohesive group that would work better together.

If our goal is to stop the bad thing from happening, we should probably then discuss some basic tactics of interaction (both combative and peaceful) with others we encounter, so we don't have a couple characters trying to parley, a couple trying to duck away or sneak past, and a couple trying to start a fight, but instead have a group that is trying to do one of these things (or a group that is trying to use one of these things as a distraction while actually doing another).

My $0.02 into the pot...

--dez--
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strattjw
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The party, as it stands right now, consists of Meg, Chloe, and Gaidan.

Those three characters have great cohesiveness. They consist of two paladins that get along great together and a fighter / barbarian quite taken to both palidins. The three have a definite goal, to disrupt the elemental temples and end their evil ways. The three even have a similar view on interactions inside of the temple, the talk first attack if you must later approach.

I'd say that the three remaining characters are excited to get back to the temple, are excited to explore it, and are excited to work with each other.

I guess i just don't see the lack of cohesiveness.

As to what Raz says about character attachment and not trying new things, I'd say that Meg is a new thing for me. She is the first cleric and the first paladin that I've played in 3e. She is a nice break from my usual desire to play wizards or dexterous fighters. I like the character and would like to continue using her. The only thing that isn't different about and my usual characters is her sex Razz

-- jesse
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Dez
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cohesiveness concern isn't about the two characters that survived the last session (by dint of not being involved). It is about those characters bonding with the rest of the group...

You're right, Jesse, when you say that Meg, Gaidan,and Chloe are a very cohesive group. The problem is that they didn't (and in my opinion didn't try very hard to) work with the rest of the group -- they worked with each other, and left the rest to their own devices...which left the others trying to figure out what they could do to help disrupt the temple...

Please re-evaluate based on the group as a whole (8 characters), not a small sub-set.

--dez--
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strattjw
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right now the party isn't eight characters. right now the party is three characters. possibly four characters if Antonious remains. the party is pretty cohesive right now. even if Antonious sticks around three of the four party members would be pretty damn well cohesive.

when other characters decide to join our party it is their role to come up with characters that work with the pre-existing characters. it's not like this is a new party of new characters for a new campaign. a party where the players can decide on character types before hand, ensuring that the characters can all work together. this is a pre-existing party that players who want to bring in new characters will join. as a result, those players that want to bring in new characters need to think about how their new characters will work with the pre-existing party. knowing that the party has two paladins should definately impact the new characters brought into the campaign to be characters that can work with a paladin heavy party.

-- jesse
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Dez
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*grinz* I'm guessing you haven't heard my point, still. I'm requesting that you look at the party of pre-march 2002, and the cohesiveness issues found in that group.

As far as other characters "deciding to join your party" having to come with characters that "work with the pre-existing characters" -- that sounds very arrogant to me. There are, after all, more of the new characters than the old (unless Antonius remains, in which case it's split half-n-half). But regardless of that, it is not solely up to individuals joining the group to make sure their characters work -- it is up to the group at large to figure out how to work together. If everyone comes in with a character built to "work with a paladin heavy party", it isn't necessarily going to be fun for the other players, and why should the paladins have precedence? If the new group consisted of 4 rogues, why would the paladins not have to reconsider their attitudes to figure out a way to work with these fellows? To make the claim that the burden of cohesiveness falls on new characters entering the party is (imho) at the least naive, at the worst horribly rude and antisocial.

--dez--
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DMShoe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To state an extreme example -- if the party consists primarily of drow-killing dwarves, then a new character shouldn't be a half-drow sorcerer.

I realize that some situations might be excellent "role-playing opportunities". I also have a desire to allow players to play whatever kind of character they desire, within reason.

When new characters join, I try to determine a plausible explanation for the initial contact, and hopefully will work with the player to set up general motivation, etc. But it is ultimately up to the characters to determine why they travel and adventure together.

And some situations that might be viewed as "role-playing opportunities" might also be detrimental to the enjoyment of the game for other players.

I have run campaigns before where there was competition between party members -- where the PCs have their own goals that might ultimately conflict with other PCs. The idea behind that style of campaign is that the final climax is made all that more dramatic by the turncoating and backstabbing (figurative or literal) -- but everyone is in on it, and it can be alot of fun.

Other campaigns, like the two I'm currently running, are not designed for the PCs to be adversarial. The goal of those campaigns is to eventually move through a story arc and defeat the greater evil. Animosity between party members is usually counterproductive and erodes the fun of the game for all involved (DM included).

For the RTEE campaign, I will, as before, attempt to create a plausible explanation for the presence of the new party members. That may mean that the "existing" party members may have to change their attitudes, it may not -- after all, are the "existing" members looking to add to their own party, or to join a different group?

Ultimately it needs to be two discussions: one in-character regarding desires/motivations/splitting treasure/whatever, and perhaps another out-of-character, to discuss overall teamwork and tactics.

And also, I'd like to comment that this seems to be a recurring theme with this group - see this thread - and we seem to have a discussion about it once a year, but the issue seems to keep coming back.

In the current campaign you have a number of things that could be considered "goals" for your PCs. You could desire to rid Mount Stalagos of evil. You could be on an inquisition to determine the nature of this Cult of the Elemental Eye. Perhaps you are looking for treasure or artifacts the dwarves left behind. Or maybe you just really like to tag along with interesting people. I suggest that each of you adopt a goal for your character, and if appropriate then discuss it with the other players (in or out of character, I don't care).

-DMShoe
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Dez
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be a _really_ good idea for everyone to share their goals...out of character, if it's something that you don't want the other characters to know, but at least so the players understand what ties bind the group together.

quoting from the thread DMShoe referenced, something that made the session (at that time) work a lot better was:
Quote:
we took time to try to strategize enough to 1) work as a group in combat, and 2) prepare for known events before actually encountering them.


If this group (as it is forming up) addressed those issues, I think it would go a long way to making sure we don't suffer another party kill.

--dez--
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mzshoe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2002 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chloe is on a mission for the church. That is the reason that she is there, and the two surviving members of the party are willing to follow that lead and be a cohesive group. As a character, Chloe does not believe that Antonius would meld well with the remaining group. She does not wish him harm, but she does not want him in the group.

As far as trying to give all eight members of the continuing group motivations for being there... Three of us have them and I haven't heard the other five. I don't expect this to become Chloe's posse, but because of her class and her past experiences, she is going to be wary about who she works with.

Yes, I want people to be able to play the characters they want, but I need to know why an assassin would willingly gang up with two paladins.

I think the other issue here is that we have a large group and we need to understand each others' playing styles. I'm of a mind that not every encounter needs to be a combat, but we always seem to end up in combat. If we have people in the group who merely want to play to fight, we need to figure out if the group of eight should continue. If we have two such differing styles of play, we either need to figure out which is going to prevail, or we're going to end up with this same discussion every year.
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Kyndig
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2002 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gaiden likes the Paladins: where they go, he'll go as long as they still want him around. He likes what they stand for - liberation, goodness, and sandwhiches - and the disruption of the evil temple dudes seems like a good a noble quest to pursue.

But most importantly, the Paladins remind Gaiden of the boy he used to be; the teenager he was before his capture by the Orcs. Gaiden was Lawful, but his two years in the gladiator pit forced the change to a more chaotic existence. Gaiden is striving for, and will someday become, the Lawful man he so desperately wants to be.

Gaiden agrees with Chloe's assessment of the party situation. Because of past experiences, he is also quite wary of who he adventures with. Meg and Chloe have his trust. Gaiden doesn't trust Antonius as much as he did. This stems from the most recent event of the party dying, and from Antonius's bickering and disagreement with Chloe and himself. Like Chloe, Gaiden does not wish any harm to come to Antonius, but he doesn't mesh well with Gaiden, Chloe, and Meg. Parting ways might looks to be the best solution.

Same question on the assassin. Uh, Raz, is that why you were suggesting that everyone bring in a new character; since an assassin would be easier to play without two paladins in the group? Just wondering...

And I like the idea of Chloe's posse; it has a nice ring to it... Smile
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