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Campaign HQ    The Company of the Bright Star Campaign    Vampire

Clans
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Shadowlord
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Joined: 25 May 2001
Posts: 285
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 6:11 pm    Post subject: Clans Reply with quote

We have had requests for clans for quite some time. In addition to the usual thing you would get with clans I would propose the following non-standard ideas.

1) Only Clan leaders can declare war on opposing clans. Once war has been declared on a clan they are automatically in a state of war. The attacked clan does not have to wait for their leader to show up to declare war.
2) Clan leaders also have the ability to declare peace. Clans at peace cannot attack each other.
3) Clans can commission custom eq per established guidelines. Cost of the eq would depend on the stats ordered.
4) Non clan members would incure a penalty for using clan eq. Non clan members that use clan eq to attack a clan member would incure a double penalty.
5) After level 25, there would be legal playerkilling of morts not affiliated with a clan. This will encourage morts to seek the safety of a clan.
6) Clan house guards are not all powerful and can be defeated, but not easily. Once a guard is defeated the Clan house is open to looting. The clan guard will call out to clan members for help in the event of an attack.
7) Clan guards are an option that are purchased. You get a standard guard with the house but you can upgrade the guard as you have funds. Lower end guards could possibly be bribed.

Obviously with clans we would have to introduce a rent system. I do not like the idea of a pay to rent system though. In the case of clans renting in their house, they donít pay rent on the eq but clan does have to pay maintenance on the house. I propose up to two months grace on maintenance payments. After 2 months the house is locked and a guard placed until balance is paid. After 4 months the house is destroyed with all eq being sold to shop keepers or auto auctioned (more on this later). All time is mud time, not real time.
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marcus
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Joined: 28 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really like the clan ideas and really think that if we set it up right that it will be another thing that might get random players that just stop in to hang around for awhile. A couple other ideas I have.

1) Each clan needs a sponsor from one of the immortals. I would say you can't be the sponsor and the leader of your own clan and your sponsor needs to be at least 53.
2) Have a clan channel. I don't know squat on coding so I don't know how it is done but I have seen it. I know that we can open a virtual channel but could there be someway that clan members are flagged to where they have that channel automatically?
3) We could have clan quest. Pick a group of three from your clan for a battle royal in the areana last clan standing could win points or some eq or something stupid like that.
4) I would say that in order for a clan to be active it needs at least one active mort in the clan. This would encourage clans to recruit/include some of the newer players and help them learing the ins and outs of the mud.

thats it for now.

adam
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DonGiovanni
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:13 pm    Post subject: Clans Reply with quote

These concepts are great. I have seen them on other muds and they add another dimension to keep players interested.

I like the idea of having an immortal sponsor. Not sure that it needs to be that high of a level though.

As far as clan eq goes, maybe there can be a flag on the eq so others don't use it? It might be difficult to enforce a non-clan member use policy.
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Robert
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am currently trying to ferret my way through the available patches and the circle 3.0 code to find if clans are already integrated into the code or if there is a patch available out there so that we don't have to code it ourselves. So far, not much luck. Of course it doesn't help much that I'm about illiterate when it comes to coding.
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Elveron
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok a few things on clans.

One I think there should be a generic clan lead by an immort that
people can join at level 25, this is for 2 reaons:
1) We don't want to alienate players because they don't want to join clans
for clans wars and
2) There is no gaurantee a clan will want them.

Second I also don't feel you should be able to declare a clan war
without both clan leaders agreeing, or having a grace period of 48
hours so the other clan leader has a chance to respond, at least for
the first few months, then after that we open it up to sneak attacks.

Steven
PS I would call the non-war clan the newbie clan and would be willing to sponsor myself if need be.
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Elveron
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok a few things on clans.

One I think there should be a generic clan lead by an immort that
people can join at level 25, this is for 2 reaons:
1) We don't want to alienate players because they don't want to join clans
for clans wars and
2) There is no gaurantee a clan will want them.

Second I also don't feel you should be able to declare a clan war
without both clan leaders agreeing, or having a grace period of 48
hours so the other clan leader has a chance to respond, at least for
the first few months, then after that we open it up to sneak attacks.

Steven
PS I would call the non-war clan the newbie clan and would be willing to sponsor myself if need be.
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marcus
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2002 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just some other ideas on the clan thing.

First I would say that if we have the level 25 non-clan clan thing that those chars shouldn't have any kind of eq or hq. I think that they should just be considered a clanless group. I think that we should try as much as possible to encourage players to join up with clans.

I have looked around at some other muds lately and saw one the other night that kept track of a clans number of player deaths and and kills. I think that kills might be a bit much but it would be interesting to see which clan dies the most.

I think that we should set something up that give the basics that you need in order to get a clan. Perhaps only after you get a certain number of different players in the game can you be considered active. Maybe at this point you are able to ask for clan eq. Next I would say you would need to recruit X amount of players in order to be able to get your clan HQ. I think that this would encourage clans to recruit new members as well as add more to the clan idea. I don't think that a clan with only 3 members should have the same perks as a bigger clan.

I think also something should be set up in the help files as to what the different clans we have are as well as what they stand or don't stand for.

Just some ideas

adam
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Jayden
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as clans go I think we could expand on clans. For the newbies that want to join a clan we could have a clan matrix that goes up to a certain level. A character levels 1-10 might have a choice of 3 clans to join. Once that character gets to level 11 he has to choose a higher echelon of clan and so on and so forth. Not all of these clans would have to be sponsored by an imm though so I don't see why it would be so hard to do.
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Shadowlord
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elveron wrote:
Ok a few things on clans.

One I think there should be a generic clan lead by an immort that
people can join at level 25, this is for 2 reaons:
1) We don't want to alienate players because they don't want to join clans
for clans wars and
2) There is no gaurantee a clan will want them.

Second I also don't feel you should be able to declare a clan war
without both clan leaders agreeing, or having a grace period of 48
hours so the other clan leader has a chance to respond, at least for
the first few months, then after that we open it up to sneak attacks.


If we want to do the generic clan I would say that they could have a house with no storage rooms, No EQ and have a perm NOWAR flag on them. I would prefer to see some other penalty for this clan but I'm not sure what. The nowar clan kinda defeats the effort to get people involved in clans.

I also like the idea of being able to put a NOWAR flag on a clan for any number of reasons. If we have a clan that does nothing but cause trouble we coulod NOWAR them without having to disband them.

Anyway, not thinking as clear as I would like this morning so I'll post more later.
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DonGiovanni
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 1:17 pm    Post subject: Clans Reply with quote

It is certainly important to have a way to make sure that the clans do not get carried away, not that it has ever happened before. Wink Anyway, the important thing is to encourage people to participate in the clan system, but not exclude people who are not interested or chosen to be in clans.
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marcus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2002 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been thinking about the non-clan thing. I say if you don't want to join a clan then fine you lose out on some cool stuff. If there isn't a clan that wants you start putting together your own clan, same goes if you don't like the people in the clans that are currently out there. I mean bascially if we go with Steven's idea aren't the a clan anyways?

I think the best way to solve the problem of making sure that the clans are continually looking for players to add to the clan is to find ways to encourage them to recruit and attempt to expand their clan. This could be done by giving bigger clans discounts or something. Maybe allow a clan with a larger player base to have higher level guards or something of that sort.

I am assuming that there has been problems with clans getting carried away in the past. (from Dongs post) Maybe an additional division that you higher ups could have would be in charge of clan doings. It would have to be somebody who doesn't currently sponsor a clan though obviously, if we go the sponsor thing.
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Elveron
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me define sponsorship. I meant by that every time a new clan starts
an immort would be assigned that clan, the clan could choose or
just take dumb luck. That way it is that's immort's job to keep track
of the clan and help resolve problems as they come up, because trust
me it will come up, heck we had it with unofficial clans already.

As for the no-clan thing, I agree with the posts, if you choose after
what ever level is the minimum then you don't get the advantages of
a clan hourse, special clan eq, or any of the advantages clans do.
The difference is your a normal mudder (no worries about PK) or
clan wars if you don't want to participate. So basically you
become the lone wolf, in the long run it could help or hinder a player
depending how they play.

My point is not everyone will want to be in clans if a clan war can be
called at anytime whether the clan being attack chooses to participate
or not, which kinda is the way I read Shadowlord's post. If you eliminate
that point, then there is no surprise attacks, or we could make
two type of clans, meaning the all out kill them clans and the more
stable clans that have to agree to clan wars, vs those who are constantly
under the threat of sneak attacks.

That concept for me would be cool, but just an all out clan war whenever
another clan chooses, I don't like. Personally I have done those muds and
you will find when one super mort is on from a clan and 8 other clan members are on from another, it gets real old.

Steven
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DonGiovanni
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 2:50 pm    Post subject: Clans Reply with quote

I think that it is important to keep as many options open for our players as possible. I doubt that giveing up the possability of clan benefits and going it alone will hinder the clan system. With the benefits of being in a clan the vast majority of the mud will want to participate. There exist, however, people that have personal things against clans (not me, although it may sound that way) or want the extra challenge of going it alone. This simply adds another dimension to the mud. I like what Elveron is proposing here.
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Jayden
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay here is another suggestion for clans. When a player does decide he wants to join a clan there should be something he has to do to prove himself worthy of the clan. For this I would suggest something like an entrance fee, or having to do one of those automated quests. I don't think you should just be able to get a char to level 25 and say okay i want in the clan. Another suggestion would be to flag IPs so that the same IP cannot join 2 clans. I mean what if I logged in 2 chars from 2 different clans. What would happen then. But then the possiblility comes for those few people that have 1 IP for several computers. We ran in to that before when there was 4 connections from 1 IP but not same person just same place. Anyway that would be up to Sl's discretion on that. I would suggest flagginf the IP though to prevent cheating as far as the clan goes.
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Jayden
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2002 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh just one more thing I though of. All organizations have an alignment. The clans would require an alignment. I mean I know there will be evil clans good clans neutral clans. The characters need to reflect that. We can't go having good players in evil clans and vice versa. I would suggest if a players alignment changes while in that clan the he be ejected from clan and must repair alignment before he can re-request to be back in the clan.

Jon

"YOU CAN'T PLAY"
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marcus
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree totally with having a sponsor. I think that it should be on the shoulders of the person wanting to start the clan to find their own sponsor. That way we let the players approach imms they like and let the imms turn down sponsoring clans that they won't like.

I also say we let chars decide on their own what the rules are for their clan. Perhaps require some kind of charter explaining if you are a pk clan, or anti pk clan. Also I would say let clans decide on their own what level to accept new members. I also think that people should be allowed to not join a clan and go clanless.

Perhaps once we get things rolling on the new mud or at least started we should gather our ideas and come up with some kinda of help file on how to start a clan. I would say step one)come up with charter stating what your clan stand for is it pk whatever...two)find an imm who will sponsor your clan...after that I don't really know. Again I like the idea that you have to have a set number of active member in your clan before you can get an hq, then a higher number before you can get clan eq. Like I said I think this will make people recruit the new players more.

bout it for now

adam
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Jayden
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like adams ideas. He needs to post more. My question about sponsors is can any Imm do it or does it have to be like an asst+. Cause I know it would give a build something to do. Specially after mud is done. Maybe that would be a great way for an Imm to get broken in and learn the ropes. I odn't know if you guys want us lower imms on stuff like that though. no one has said.

Jon
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Jayden
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2002 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My bad Adam said it should be ASST+, but those are a little scarse at the moment and i know there will be more clans than 53+'s we have. I'd like to hear from a CIMP+ on what we can do on this.

Jon
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Elveron
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok clans in a nut shell:

First I think the any immort should be able to sponsor a clan, if its a low level then they ask a cimp plus to be there mentor for that clan, assistants would be on there own though if they accept a clan, meaning don't expect cimp+'s to hold your hand (that is my opinion on sponsorship).

Second I don't feel that Clan HQ should be on the map I think it should be the choice of the clan leader and his immort sponsor to choose the location of the clan house, how to enter it and stuff like that.

Third as for admission to the clan again I think that is up to the clan leader of his own clan and his personal clan rules (though I suggest general clan rules that all clans must follow), the rest would be above normal clan rules.

Fourth I feel that only the clan leader can accept clan members into his clan, not every clan person or clan immort sponser.

Fifth I think their is no minium to set up a clan unless we have a limited number of clans we can have based on code. I do think you need a minium of three players to get a clan HQ and 5 to 8 to get a clan eq piece. (Real life players).

Sixth I think if you go clanless aka Lone Wolf you get no benefits from being in a clan, but no additional penalties. What could the benefits be:
First most clan members will help each other
Second Share eq first with others
Third Help share clan house cost
Fourth CLan Eq once you become strong clan.

That to me is clans in a nutshell minus the PK factor, which after thinking about it I think there
should be no PK in clans, only all out clan wars
by clans, the exception would be sneak attack on clan houses and retaliation without warning for such an offense.

Steven
PS These are my opinions only.
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Gimli
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great! Everyone is excited about the clan thingie. I totally like our attitude towards this. Each and everyone has something to say and all the ideas I've read are really cool. Which leads me to one question that I have been raring to ask before I went MIA for a bit. DO WE HAVE ENOUGH PLAYERS TO MAKE OUR CLAN CODE COLORFUL?
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marcus
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer Sherwin's question I would say no we do not have enough players to do much with the clan ideas we have had. I think that a lot of us have kinda gotten carried away with throwing out ideas and what not. I think we pretty much all agree with having clans and all agree with it being something that will add a bit more color to our mud.

Lets get the mud started, new areas built, and the basics. Then I think we should revisit this and some of the other ideas first. First things first right? We have the mud up, thanks lloyd. Lets get it tested as much as we can, then lets decide if we go theme/themeless and lets get building. If we have a good enough mud people will play.


adam
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Jayden
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A second reply to Gimlis question. I would say at the moment we do not have enough players on old mud. Once new mud is up and running though, I say we post on every mud board we can find that there is a new mud out there to let everyone know. We also as players recruit the people we talk to to play. Every games chatroom there is that we can go into. Spread the word about it. The more people we talk to the better. When we go out it will be all players jobs to spread word if they want. It would benefit them because then they get more players in their clan they get clan bonuses. Its the only way to do it.

Jon
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Shadowlord
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!


Joined: 25 May 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayden wrote:
A second reply to Gimlis question. I would say at the moment we do not have enough players on old mud. Once new mud is up and running though, I say we post on every mud board we can find that there is a new mud out there to let everyone know.
Jon


A noble idea however in very poor taste. It is considered bad form to post about a different mud on a mud. Some places will even ban for that type of behavior. I have no problem with people going to other muds or anything like that. I just don't want to see us get a black eye because someone is getting over zealous and forgetting that someone else is paying for the priveledge of putting up the mud you plan on sniping from.
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Dez
Here dragon, dragon, dragon!
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a couple of good ways to announce a MUD that don't include posting on other MUDs boards:

1) A post to newsgroup rec.games.mud.announce
2) http://www.mudconnector.com
3) http://mudlist.betterbox.net

Just a couple of thoughts Smile

And I wouldn't mind logging in to take a look around (someone private message me with server name & port?)...and (if you're looking) would even be interested in some code work. I just can't promise a significant amount of time until after November 10th, as I'm currently focussed on my wedding on the 2nd, and then will be unplugged for the next week while on honeymoon...

--dez--
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Gimli
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 06, 2002 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would still boil down to one thing. Sure everyone is excited and motivated right now. Where would we all be 6 months from now? I still think word of mouth and a pleasant first day experience on the new mud would play a vital role in our mud's survival.

Remember...we said in the old mud, if they are not playing we are not even building.
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